Chat Box discussions: Are Roman Catholics True Christians? Part I

Forum Gawd Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:06 pm

[14:53:06 02/09/12] BLUEDEVIL : archives eshe
[14:53:09 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : research the history of the roman catholic church, from a christian perspective, bullet. do extensive research if you have to. i'm confident that if you do so, you will see why it is both spiritually and intellectually dishonest to say that they are "one and the same"
[14:53:20 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : good idea
[14:53:43 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : i wouldnt say one nd the same nyte i never said tht
[14:53:53 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : this wasn't a formal "Debate" by any means. but if anyone is interested in having one, in the forum, i'm all for it.
[14:53:58 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they have similarities that allow both to be accepted in my eyes
[14:54:32 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : hopefully dt gets in on this
[14:54:59 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : now give me back my mod
[14:55:07 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : make me mod for all the sections DANM IT
[14:55:35 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : in a nut shell, and with no intention of offending anybody in here: roman catholocism is a corruption of orthodox biblical christianity as taught by jesus and by the early church
[14:55:50 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yeah i do agree it is corrupt
[14:56:02 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : but by no means are they not to be called non christians
[14:56:08 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : roman catholocism = mix of ancient roman paganism and christianity
[14:56:10 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they believe in most of the things we believe
[14:56:15 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they dont have no added stories
[14:56:23 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : no added characters like mormons added
[14:56:36 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they aint believing in no lost tribe of israel in america lol
[14:57:22 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : we are very similar and people need to get rid of that misconception that they are not like us just because of a couple of differnces involving divinity to the saints nd who has power to forgive
[14:57:52 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they use the bible to support their doctrines unlike the mormons nd jehova witnesses that add extra shit nd even change up words
[14:58:25 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : AND YES, some of those paganistic beliefs have reared their ugly heads into the orthodox church, i.e. december 25 as christmas, church on sunday etc, but the stark difference here is that the roman catholic church itself was founded on solely on the premise of incorporating old roman paganism into the newly adopted "relgion" of the roman empire - christianity
[14:59:44 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yeah i do believe alot of stuff was pageanized after constatines rule
[15:00:09 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : even through what us protestants believe in we have pagaenism in it too
[15:00:15 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : just christianized versions of it
[15:03:14 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : a little history regarding the inception of the roman catholic church:
[15:03:18 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : the romann Catholic church, in its pagan form, unofficially came into being in 312 A.D.... at the time of the so called "miraculous conversion" to christianity of the roman emperor constantine. Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reigns of his pagan priesthood to the bishop of Rome.
[15:04:09 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yeah he used to be on both sides
[15:04:14 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : prior to the time of constantine's "conversion,"....christians were persecuted not so much for their profession of faith in christ, but because they would not include pagan deities in their faith as well.
[15:04:21 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : trying to blend them in for political reasons
[15:05:01 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : then, with constantine's emphasis on making his new ffound christianity palatable to the heathen in the empire, the "christianization" of these pagan deities was facilitated.
[15:05:05 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : all romans were supposed to sacrificed once to one of their pagaen gods
[15:05:14 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : nd jews nd christians never did so
[15:06:27 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : for example....pagan rituals and idols gradually took on christian meanings and names and were incorporated into "christian" worship i.e. "saints" replaced the cult of pagan gods in both worship and as patrons of cities; mother/son statues were renamed mary and jesus; etc., and pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holy days i.e.., the roman luperrcalia and the feast of purification of issis became the feast of the nativity
[15:07:18 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yeah
[15:07:40 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : the ssaturnalia celebrations were replaced by christmas celebrations; an ancient festival of the dead was replaced by "all Souls Day", rededicated to christian heroes -- now halloween etc.
[15:07:40 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : i pretty much knew that already but people need to learn about this stuff
[15:09:22 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : wut was the original pagean holiday of valentines again.
[15:09:23 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : ??>
[15:09:44 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : and then, a transition occurred -- instead of being persecuted for failure to worship pagan deities, christians who did not agree with the particular orthodoxy backed by the emperor were now persecuted in the name of christ "christianized" rome had become the legitimate successor of pagan rome. this is the sad but true origin of the roman catholic church. it was founded upon the premise of perserving the ancient roman religion by incorporating it's traditions, beliefs etc, into christianity.
[15:12:07 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : any self-proclaimed "catholic", who subscribes to the olden traditions of the original roman church, are by default, defecting themselves from the Christianity that jesus commanded his followers to abide by
[15:12:55 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : well they dont know that
[15:13:03 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : most of the time they dont know that
[15:13:19 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : but u forgot how the jews did this too in the olden days
[15:13:44 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they would build altars to sacriffice to God nd he didnt like that cuz he wwanted them only in the temple
[15:14:09 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : there are "catholics" who have moved away from these paganistic tradtions found in the roman catholic church - they've rejected venerating the virgin, and praying to saints etc, and only focus on the figure of christ as presented in the bible, and these individuals are worthy of being called followers of christ, i.e. they are christians. BUT to say that ALL catholics are christians? no sir, that is simply an incorrect statement
[15:14:38 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : what the pagan jews believed in is totally irrelevant as it pertains to this discussion, bullet
[15:15:41 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : no nyte it is not irrelavant it is very similar to what he has happened to the catholic church
[15:15:52 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : in many ways is it similiar
[15:16:23 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : they worshipped the staff that moses used to cure ppl much like the catholics worship statues of saints
[15:16:32 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : very similar
[15:16:45 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : pagaenizing true worship is all it is
[15:18:12 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : God has set a standard, a singular truth, a universal set of laws by which man is to abide by. everything else that opposes this, be it in the form of a disguised christianity, or by a totally contradictory foreign religion like islam, if it opposes what God has already instituted as law/truth, then it is to be exposes for what it really is and discarded.
[15:19:34 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yes i agree
[15:19:50 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : but still there are honest catholics dat have accepted christ
[15:20:08 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : it's in man's sinful nature to conceive doctrines or practices that oppose God, and it has happened since the fall of man into sin, but that doesn't negate the fact that God has already set a precept of truths that stand as definitive for every man and woman
[15:21:05 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : but still there are honest catholics dat have accepted christ <----- and if you re-read some of my earlier posts, then you would see that I NEVER disagreed with this
[15:21:22 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yeah i know^^
[15:21:38 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : im just saying because i hate the misconception that they are totally different
[15:21:53 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : i am not a defender of their faith
[15:22:16 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : but i am defending the truth that they believe in nd that is accepting da holy ghost
[15:23:54 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : islam was founded upon judeo-christian precepts, at it's core, and remains that way, however, the doctrines that are taught in islam are completely at odds with what the bible teaches. the same is true of roman catholocism, except they differ in their origins to a degree
[15:24:32 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : muhammad himself seems to have been greatly influenced by the roman catholic church, and it's evident in his writtings
[15:25:06 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : the fact that he accused christians of believing that God is 3 in the form of "god, mary, and jesus," demonstrates this
[15:25:38 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : i agree^^
[15:26:28 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : i found that islamic connection quite intriguing though.!! It tripped me out on all those pagean symbols in those chruches
[15:26:44 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : nd of course i figured since most of those churches were built by free masons
[15:26:52 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : im just saying because i hate the misconception that they are totally different <---------------- enough difference exists. and superficial similarities don't serve to prove the validity of something. at face value, mormonism, and even jehovas witnesess appear to share the same faith as biblical christians do
[15:27:06 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : didnt the pope write a new doctrine that permits free masonry.??
[15:27:13 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : but that's obviously not the case once careful examination of each faith is done
[15:28:08 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : yeah but like i have said nyte mormons nd jehovas witness differ becaus ethey deny the holy ghost they deny the trinity catholics nd christians dont
[15:28:28 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : the main christian concept is too accept the trinity
[15:28:44 02/09/12] WheyShakePowder : god the father god the son god the holy spirit
[15:28:54 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : [15:25:06] @ WholeGrains4Life : the fact that he accused christians of believing that God is 3 in the form of "god, mary, and jesus," demonstrates this [15:25:38] @ WheyShakePowder : i agree^^ <-------- then you should also agree with the fact that roman catholic theology greatly differs from biblical christianity in more than several ways
[15:30:41 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : didnt the pope write a new doctrine that permits free masonry.?? <--------- i'm not sure, but what i do know is that the pope is viewed as the ultimate authority on all things "spiritual" for catholics. what he says goes, and goes unquestioned to devouts.
[15:31:36 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : yeah but like i have said nyte mormons nd jehovas witness differ becaus ethey deny the holy ghost they deny the trinity < mormons don't deny this
[15:33:00 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : yeah but they dont believe that the three are one <-------- they do
[15:33:20 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : jehovas witness are the ones that deny this
[15:33:24 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : not mormons
[15:33:28 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they believe that God was once a man
[15:33:32 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : nd became a God
[15:33:47 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they believe that all people will one day become gods if they are good
[15:33:56 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they are irrelavnt
[15:34:03 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they are simpy just wierdos
[15:34:06 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : plain as that
[15:34:10 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : WIERDOS
[15:34:25 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : id rathher practice catholicism then that crap
[15:34:40 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : i think you or cray, not sure who, wanted me to simply think that catholics are simply misguided christians, but then it must be asked, are mormons and jehovas witness simply misguided "christians" as well?
[15:35:16 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : oh yes mormons are misguided
[15:35:20 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : jehovas witneses
[15:35:26 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but i cant label them christians
[15:35:30 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : i know exactly what mormons believe. i'm simply pointing out the fact that at it's core, the basic tenents of mormonism appear to be no different from biblical christianity
[15:35:31 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they deny way too much
[15:35:47 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOU ABOUT ROMAN CATHOLICS
[15:35:49 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : jehovas dont even believe jesus was God come on they are totally different
[15:36:08 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they are all misguided my friend
[15:36:22 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but catholics aint as misguided as the other two
[15:37:14 02/09/12] @ southsiderifa : wass good gees
[15:37:21 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : lol^^
[15:37:36 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : wuts brackin
[15:37:43 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : roman catholicism, at it's most basic level, share apparent similarites with biblical christianity, but once you begin to investigate other facets of their faith, you can clearly see that differences exist, and these difference differ so wildly with biblical christianity, as to render it as a seperate faith all together
[15:38:57 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : REMEMBER, superifical similarities mean nothing, if the bigger picture is examined and everything else is contradictory
[15:38:57 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : yeah i understand there differnce they are way totally out of the guide
[15:38:58 02/09/12] @ southsiderifa :
[15:39:07 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but i cant count them off as not being christians
[15:39:11 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : cuz thts wut they are
[15:39:18 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : nd honestly were catholics too
[15:39:24 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : if u know the meaning of the word
[15:39:33 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : but i cant count them off as not being christians <--------------- AND I NEVER HAVE/NEVER DID!!!!!!
[15:39:37 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : its just means universal christian
[15:40:04 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : nd honestly were catholics too < -------------------
[15:40:06 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i would rather have sum1 convert to catholicism then mormonism or jehovas crackheads
[15:40:33 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : when i say were catholics im not saying the shit we believe in lol i mean the true meaning of the word
[15:41:05 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : catholic : universal church
[15:41:19 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : by that logic, we're all muslims too since islam means submission to the one god of issac, abraham and jacob
[15:41:31 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : lol^^
[15:41:35 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : fuck ur sarcasm lol
[15:41:42 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i knew u were gunna say that too
[15:41:42 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : ?
[15:42:07 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : you're sarcasm detector must be failing you today....
[15:42:15 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i used to say that too this catholic lady when i was under the misconception that they are all nutjobs nd altar boy molestors
[15:42:21 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : no sarcasm intended
[15:42:34 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : souf side what city you from eshe??
[15:42:47 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but like i said earlier
[15:43:12 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : both protestan denominations nd ccatholics ones have its corruptness
[15:43:26 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : everything is corrupt now days
[15:43:38 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : satan finds his way to altar anything he can
[15:43:51 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : alter*
[15:44:34 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : the fact of the matter is that you have repeatedly stated that catholics are christians, yet without providing evidence of that claim. furthermore, you fail to mention if it's ALL catholics, or just some (which is my position), which is why i said you're constantly contradicting yourself
[15:45:27 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : both protestan denominations nd ccatholics ones have its corruptness <--------------- and i've already addressed this
[15:45:56 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : how have i not showed proof
[15:46:01 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i have showed enough proof
[15:46:09 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : plus, the subject at hand is why roman catholocism is not biblical christianity, not corruption, per se
[15:46:10 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they both accept christ the same way
[15:46:18 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : unlike the mormons nd jeohvas nd muslims
[15:46:34 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they accept christ nd his trinity nd his God head
[15:46:57 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they havent added no new scripture or switched up words like mormons muslims ETC
[15:47:05 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : they both accept christ the same way <------------ did everything i just wrote within the last 30 mins just fly over your head?
[15:47:17 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : no it didnt nyte
[15:47:30 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i understand about the pagaenism that is in the catholic church
[15:47:37 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : after 312 ad with constantine
[15:47:48 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i understand that but that is irelavent
[15:48:04 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : ok, bullet. so answer this question: ALL catholics are christians?
[15:48:09 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : anything that goes against what christ teaches is not true worship i understand
[15:48:17 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : all.?? NO
[15:48:19 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : no
[15:48:23 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but also this
[15:48:29 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : i understand about the pagaenism that is in the catholic church <------not what i was referring to
[15:48:31 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : not all christians are christians lol
[15:48:49 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but no nyte not all catholics are christians
[15:49:02 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : all.?? NO <---------then why are you arguing against what i'm saying?
[15:49:08 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : lol
[15:49:53 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : cuz u clearly said that they are not the same lol
[15:50:03 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : i've already made myself extremely clear on whether some catholics are actually genuine christians, to which i agree with.
[15:50:16 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : SOME
[15:50:17 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : are
[15:50:32 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : not some
[15:50:33 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : alot
[15:50:35 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : not all
[15:50:39 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but alot
[15:51:15 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : i wish i can have the whole world study religion
[15:51:19 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : but truth be told
[15:51:24 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they dont give a shit
[15:51:45 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : they would rather watch youtube nd facebook update how many shits they have taken in a day
[15:52:31 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : "YEAH BUDDY"
[15:52:38 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : where is souf side at
[15:52:51 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : I asked him a question
[15:52:59 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : that foo bounced
[15:53:22 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : cuz u clearly said that they are not the same lol <----------- no, what i said is that those who ascribe to the traditional roman catholic doctrines, i.e. the doctrine that contradicts biblical christinaity, are NOT the same. it's a simple distinction
[15:53:38 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : and you claim to understand this, but your posts don't support that you actually do
[15:53:55 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : he a aethiest
[15:54:18 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : scientologist
[15:54:28 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : rich mans religion
[15:54:35 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : how would i not understand this,??
[15:55:57 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : just to make myself clear for the last; i do fully believe that one can attain salvation in christ through the catholic church. BUT ONLY, if that individual believes that jesus is the only way to god, while rejecting the unbiblical and heretical practices of praying to the virgin mary and saints
[15:56:12 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : @ WheyShakePowder : how would i not understand this,?? <---------- lol
[15:56:21 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : nd i agree to that ^^
[15:56:34 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : alright old man
[15:56:39 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : im finna merk u now.!!
[15:56:51 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : make me mod for all the sections cot danm it.!!!
[15:57:01 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : bullet be good troll
[15:57:04 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : just give me a @
[15:57:34 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : damn man I been here for years eshes
[15:57:57 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : post this in the "religion" section, bullet
[15:57:58 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : lol^^
[15:57:59 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : can you?
[15:58:04 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : ALRIGHT
[15:58:35 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life :
[15:59:52 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : danm it
[15:59:56 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : givce it back
[16:00:03 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : nd make mod for atleast 5 sections
[16:02:31 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : .!!!!!!!!!
[16:02:38 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : WHERES MY MOD STATUS
[16:02:46 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : without it im useless!!!!
[16:02:48 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : Thats my nikka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:03:03 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : lawl ^
[16:03:05 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : Thanks nyte!!!!!!!!!
[16:03:13 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : you're useless period lol
[16:03:24 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder :
[16:03:30 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : Mr bullet you is fired blud!!!!!
[16:03:35 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : anyways, im out.
[16:03:42 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : peace out y'all
[16:03:43 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : !!!!
[16:03:46 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : AGGGHHH
[16:03:48 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : MOD ME
[16:03:48 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : Peace nyte
[16:03:49 02/09/12] @ WheyShakePowder : !!!!!!!
[16:03:52 02/09/12] @ WholeGrains4Life : bbl
[16:04:03 02/09/12] @ BLUEDEVIL : 4 shizz