Is The USA Breaking Up? Petitions seeking approval to 'secede' now come from all 50 states

washingtonsblog.com

November 15, 2012

Secession: Exploding Movement, Tempest In a Teapot … Or Something Else?

A lot of attention is being given to the fact that residents in all 50 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States.
Daily Caller reports:

By 6:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, more than 675,000 digital signatures appeared on 69 separate secession petitions covering all 50 states, according to a Daily Caller analysis of requests lodged with the White House’s “We the People” online petition system.
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Petitions from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas residents have accrued at least 25,000 signatures, the number the Obama administration says it will reward with a staff review of online proposals. (RELATED: Will Texas secede? Petition triggers White House review)
The Texas petition leads all others by a wide margin.
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States whose active petitions have not yet reached the 25,000 signature threshold include Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
***

Fourteen states are represented by at least two competing petitions. The extra efforts from two states — Missouri and South Carolina — would add enough petitions to warrant reviews by the Obama administration if they were combined into petitions launched earlier.
Other states with multiple efforts include Alaska, California, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin.
As Google notes, web searches for the term “secession” are being run in a number of states:




Conservatives – such as Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul - say that the states have the right to secede. And Texas governor Rick Perry said that Texas has a right to secede (although he counsels against it at the current time).

On the other hand, most liberals say that the Civil War ended the state’s right to secede. Huffington Post is covering the wave of secession petitions … to ridicule them.
Daily Kos suggests that “secessionists can secede by renouncing their citizenship“.
As the Daily Caller notes, liberals have launched their own counter-petitions:

In a … nose-thumbing aimed at Texas’ conservative majority, progressives from the liberal state capital of Austin responded Monday with a petition to secede from their state if Texas as a whole should decide to leave the Union.
Late Tuesday a second group of Texans, this one from Houston, lodged their own White House petition. Secession-minded Texans, they wrote, “are mentally deficient and [we] do not want them representing us. We would like more education in our state to eradicate their disease.”
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A group from El Paso, too, wants no part of an independent Texas. “Allow the city of El Paso to secede from the state of Texas,” their petition reads. “El Paso is tired of being a second class city within Texas.”
Yahoo News argues that the petitions are meaningless:
The petitions are little more than symbolic—and nothing new. Similar petitions were filed after the 2004 and 2008 elections.
Libertarian website Lew Rockwell argues in a piece by Ryan McMaken that nothing will come of the current secession attempts, but that the principle is important:
I have no illusions about this latest secession petition phenomenon. Nothing will directly come of this, and the people who are behind it are mostly people who would be singing “God Bless America” at the tops of their lungs had Mitt Romney been elected. On the other hand, it sure has a lot of people talking about secession, which shows that the idea of it remains an important part of the American political consciousness.
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The Declaration makes a simple argument:
Humans have rights from the Creator.
Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it).

When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.
That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was no such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And, no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.
The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession. Lysander Spooner explains[:]

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775–1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.

Ron Paul says that states have the right so secede … and predicts they will do so when the dollar collapses:
My take has been the same for many years … I believe that America – like the Soviet Union – may break up when corruption and tyranny lead to the break down of basic systems.
And see this and this.

lol me and cray been talkin bout this. its funny how people like to take this and blow it outta proportion.

People do blow it out of proportion but although states do have a right to secede from a moral point of view, its not going to happen now. The Leftists are way too mean spirited and authoritarian for it to happen just now, and most the people within the states still want to be apart of USA. But its good to see secession enter the discussion at least.

DontxTrip wrote:lol me and cray been talkin bout this. its funny how people like to take this and blow it outta proportion.

RC wrote:People do blow it out of proportion but although states do have a right to secede from a moral point of view, its not going to happen now. The Leftists are way too mean spirited and authoritarian for it to happen just now, and most the people within the states still want to be apart of USA. But its good to see secession enter the discussion at least.

What I really find to be humorous here is the fact that people are beginning to tout this as a kind of new 'revolution' or uprising. If people had truly wanted a revolution or change from the way things are going currently, then they should have rallied fervently to vote for an independent third-party candidate in the election, this would have sent a clear-cut message to the two-party system that they would not let them have complete control over politics.

But they didn't do that... and the rallies that were setup for people like Ron Paul, left much to be desired, imo.

Secession is not the answer to the issues this country is facing. Observe Quebec Canada for instance, where secession has nearly reached a majority level, yet has failed to attain fruition status, nothing has changed. There isn't a single nation in the world that isn't affected by global interests today, so if people think separating and hoarding all resources for themselves is going to work, then they are sadly mistaken.


The sheer act of people rallying for something like this signifies to me that Americans are simply experiencing post-election disenchantment. Their personal choice of who was to be commander in chief isn't in office, much to their dismay. Now their focus lies not on the current woeful state of the country or the roots of these problems, but in petty things like political parties and electoral candidates.

To me, this serves to demonstrate that the common American is completely out of sink and oblivious to the issues that truly merit our attention. The masses are ignoring critical issues and falling for meaningless or contrived ones instead. What are the real issues that deserve attention? How about the corrupt banking institutions? The government backing and ratifying of detrimental policies? Government involvement in foreign countries? Hell, how about the on-going crap that's going on in our own backyards, even.

The real issues far exceed the the trivial, and contrived political shows, that most people seem to be preoccupied with right now. And until people can divert their attention towards them, everything will continue on a steady path to ignorance, despair, and ultimately, destruction.

Yeah, nothing will come of this. It's all noise and most the people putting together these secession petitions are just people that would have been perfectly happy had Romney won the election. LOL. And that right there shows just how clueless people are. It also means that if even if they did secede, they're just going to mimic the USA and recreate or continue in the same direction as the USA anyway. But from a philosophical point of view, people shouldn't be forced into the union, but the reality is, they are.

RC wrote:Yeah, nothing will come of this. It's all noise and most the people putting together these secession petitions are just people that would have been perfectly happy had Romney won the election. LOL.

Exactly. And these are the same people who have been singing "God Bless America!" at the top of their lungs had he been chosen....

RC wrote:It also means that if even if they did secede, they're just going to mimic the USA and recreate or continue in the same direction as the USA anyway. But from a philosophical point of view, people shouldn't be forced into the union, but the reality is, they are.

Another scenario to consider here, and this is deviating from the topic a bit, but what if this is simply another scheme from the elite to weaken the US to the point where it can be coerced into joining a world government? Remember, "order from disorder", is a common mantra among these globalist. So f it is possible that a cabal of individuals exists with the desire to weaken the nation, would not the introduction of these petitions for secession be a possible vehicle towards destroying national sovereignty? Ask yourself; who filed these petitions? Were they all filed together? Does the individual who filed these petitions have an ulterior motive? I know I might be reaching into the deep here, but there are many things to consider, I think.

yup, you must destroy before you can rebuild.

WholeGrains4Life wrote:

RC wrote:Yeah, nothing will come of this. It's all noise and most the people putting together these secession petitions are just people that would have been perfectly happy had Romney won the election. LOL.

Exactly. And these are the same people who have been singing "God Bless America!" at the top of their lungs had he been chosen....

RC wrote:It also means that if even if they did secede, they're just going to mimic the USA and recreate or continue in the same direction as the USA anyway. But from a philosophical point of view, people shouldn't be forced into the union, but the reality is, they are.

Another scenario to consider here, and this is deviating from the topic a bit, but what if this is simply another scheme from the elite to weaken the US to the point where it can be coerced into joining a world government? Remember, "order from disorder", is a common mantra among these globalist. So f it is possible that a cabal of individuals exists with the desire to weaken the nation, would not the introduction of these petitions for secession be a possible vehicle towards destroying national sovereignty? Ask yourself; who filed these petitions? Were they all filed together? Does the individual who filed these petitions have an ulterior motive? I know I might be reaching into the deep here, but there are many things to consider, I think.

Well, I suppose anything is possible. But I'd argue that the very idea of secession goes against everything the global elite stand for which is mainly more centralization, more unions among the major countries and regions. While secession is going in the complete opposite direction of that sort of thing. With that said, people aren't ready for secession now, because as soon as any state secedes, it'll be co opted right away by the very special interests that control the rest of the world.

One more thing, although secession isn't going to happen right now, I believe its in the realm of possibilities in the future when the real financial crises hits. Because of the overwhelming debt load of the federal government, many states will get fed up and try to opt out.

Sorry Secessionists, Justice Scalia Won't Help You Out

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/justice-scalias-views-on-secession-2012-11#ixzz2CVsNfdJi

Abby Rogers

The man who claims he only interprets the law as the nation's founders originally wrote it won't be siding with the secessionists any time soon.
A handful of states have posted petitions on the White House's website stating their desire to secede from the union now that President Barack Obama has been elected.
But to do so would be a pretty lengthy battle, and, according to a 2006 letter from Scalia, a complete waste of time.
Legal blogger and lawyer Eric Turkewitz's brother wrote Scalia years ago asking the justice's opinion on secession while researching a political farce on Maine seceding from the union.
Surprisingly, Scalia wrote back. And perhaps even more surprisingly, he didn't support the idea.
"I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court," Scalia wrote. "To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede."
Check out the full letter Scalia sent to Turkewitz's brother:


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/justice-scalias-views-on-secession-2012-11#ixzz2CVsV6lYA




so says the supreme court justice.... so the only route to succession for the states is a violent one.

DontxTrip wrote:Sorry Secessionists, Justice Scalia Won't Help You Out

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/justice-scalias-views-on-secession-2012-11#ixzz2CVsNfdJi

Abby Rogers

The man who claims he only interprets the law as the nation's founders originally wrote it won't be siding with the secessionists any time soon.
A handful of states have posted petitions on the White House's website stating their desire to secede from the union now that President Barack Obama has been elected.
But to do so would be a pretty lengthy battle, and, according to a 2006 letter from Scalia, a complete waste of time.
Legal blogger and lawyer Eric Turkewitz's brother wrote Scalia years ago asking the justice's opinion on secession while researching a political farce on Maine seceding from the union.
Surprisingly, Scalia wrote back. And perhaps even more surprisingly, he didn't support the idea.
"I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court," Scalia wrote. "To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede."
Check out the full letter Scalia sent to Turkewitz's brother:


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/justice-scalias-views-on-secession-2012-11#ixzz2CVsV6lYA




so says the supreme court justice.... so the only route to succession for the states is a violent one.

lol. No right to secede, because the evil power hungry central state will CRUSH you if don't want to be ruled by it.

How DARE anyone think this was supposed to be a free country.

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/19/ron_paul_is_cool_with_secession/


^ Ron Paul found guilty of supporting the treasonous idea of secession.

We all know support for secession is code for "I am a member of or I am a supporter of the Klu Klux Klan. Right?


I love how these self-righteous little statists go into panic mode whenever some idea poses a threat to their holy religion of Nation State Supremacy.

Tristero1
MONDAY, NOV 19, 2012 11:50 AM PST
Secession is dangerous[/b] because it feeds the narrative that there are two Americas, one legitimate. [b]If the federal government's legitimacy and supremacy is sufficiently undermined, everything from taxation to law enforcement can be seen as 'optional' for 'real' Americans. Therein lies madness and RON PAUL's free for all vision of state sanctioned hooliganism.

God forbid our overlords in Washington lose a bit of power.

this is an example of why i thought that people taking that petition to secede so serious was funny to me...

this is form the same official petition the white house sight.

Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/secure-resources-and-funding-and-begin-construction-death-star-2016/wlfKzFkN

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.
Those who sign here petition the United States government to secure funding and resources, and begin construction on a Death Star by 2016.

By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense.

DontxTrip wrote:this is an example of why i thought that people taking that petition to secede so serious was funny to me...

this is form the same official petition the white house sight.

Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/secure-resources-and-funding-and-begin-construction-death-star-2016/wlfKzFkN

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.
Those who sign here petition the United States government to secure funding and resources, and begin construction on a Death Star by 2016.

By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense.

This petition is more realistic than the secession thing. The politicians probably think a death star would be a good idea.

RC wrote:

DontxTrip wrote:this is an example of why i thought that people taking that petition to secede so serious was funny to me...

this is form the same official petition the white house sight.

Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/secure-resources-and-funding-and-begin-construction-death-star-2016/wlfKzFkN

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.
Those who sign here petition the United States government to secure funding and resources, and begin construction on a Death Star by 2016.

By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense.

This petition is more realistic than the secession thing. The politicians probably think a death star would be a good idea.

its a great idea. birings me closer to my dream of being darth vader.