Mexican vs Blacks

Now these days its war... why?

Pride, Jealously and sometimes racist

Depends on the place. Most of the time it starts as a gang of thing than devolves into a srace thing. Comes down from the county like that too

i think that each should have their own country, period!

Ignorance.

whatever 

everyone is different

each should have their own little estate

that don't make anyone superior to another

that only gives everyone their own to govern and see fit

I'm a radical in that I support separatism. I think separation between various groups is the answer to much of the worlds problems. The seperations would probably fall along racial lines in many cases but the main point is to separate people among ideological lines.  But that's a whole other topic.

Gloom N Doom wrote:I'm a radical in that I support separatism. I think separation between various groups is the answer to much of the worlds problems. The seperations would probably fall along racial lines in many cases but the main point is to separate people among ideological lines.  But that's a whole other topic.

I dont see how that would solve anything, before the global era there was separation, among cultural and racial lines and im pretty sure there was still problems the world. humans will always find any way to feel superior to eachother, separate by race and itll be class warfare, separate classes and itll be something else.

It's 2013 and people are still adhering to archaic and unscientific notions like " races".........that's a major problem.

90951 wrote:

Gloom N Doom wrote:I'm a radical in that I support separatism. I think separation between various groups is the answer to much of the worlds problems. The seperations would probably fall along racial lines in many cases but the main point is to separate people among ideological lines.  But that's a whole other topic.

I dont see how that would solve anything, before the global era there was separation, among cultural and racial lines and im pretty sure there was still problems the world. humans will always find any way to feel superior to eachother, separate by race and itll be class warfare, separate classes and itll be something else.

Well maybe I should say decentralization, rather than separation, although that's part of it.

I wouldn't say everyone should separate in such a way that different groups isolate themselves from each other. In fact, I think because of the internet now, people all over the world will continue to be peacefully connected in such a big way that would bring many people of different cultures together that otherwise never would have. I think this overall will have a positive impact in the world as it becomes harder and harder to dehumanize other people from other parts of the globe. Our ruler in this country can no longer label some other group a bunch of savages that must be bombed to the stone age or else our freedom and way of life is lost, because we're connected and we recognize they're humans and they too are just people that so happen to be living under a different ruling class. So in that sense, we're uniting and its probably a good thing.

With that said, when I think of the USA, I still see many, many different cultures, attitudes, ideologies, religions etc, and I see no rational reason as to why all these different groups must all be under one umbrella, fighting the political battle, year after year, one election cycle after another to force their own agenda and belief system on all the rest of the entire country.  Why do so called Red States have to live under rule of Blue States or vice versa after some election? Why force ideas and rules on other people? Why not let them be, let them be who they are. 

It's like a couple who gets a divorce. At one time they had an arrangement and eventually something changed, and they realize it would be best to part ways. What if that was forbidden and illegal? And two people that no longer have the same feelings towards each other now must live together under the same roof and make important decisions together about life? Wouldn't that create more resentment and hatred?

Well that's how I see the US today. Different groups with different attitudes about how society should be run, yet being forced under one system and the team with the most political might gets to crush the weaker groups, thus creating more resentment and hatred between all these different groups. Whereas, it would be far more peaceful if everybody took on the "you go your way and I'll go mine, I don't wish any bad on you and yours, but let's agree to part ways" mindset..

yeah, i think separatism doesn't necessarily have to be associated with straight out racism and racists attitudes

being separate simply acknowledges that there's differences in culture, differences in language, differences in thinking

it does not mean that one is superior to another

wolfman wrote:yeah, i think separatism doesn't necessarily have to be associated with straight out racism and racists attitudes

being separate simply acknowledges that there's differences in culture, differences in language, differences in thinking

it does not mean that one is superior to another

doesnt need to mean that, its just human nature

people are different, it's all i'm saying

people act and think differently according to their upbringing and experiences in life

i started out my quest to define who we are as Raza (Chicanos-Mexican-Americans and such) and i've come to realize that the more we indulge ourselves under americanist attitudes and ways, they more far away we come to be from our old folks ways 

so why would a mexican feel the need to think white or act black?

it is only because they have become something else

and why would a black man adopt the white master's political system and become ever so much indoctrinated in his ways?

it is only because maybe his identity has become muddled and confused, maybe even lost in the quest for space

it would appear as if both the brown and the black in these here united states .. have both become lost and confused

both trying to maintain a sense of self identity

both clinging to whatever is left

so maybe it would serve both best, if they both had their own little fiefdoms to raise their children accordingly

que no?

I remember seeing a poll months ago that said a large percentage of Mexican Americans/Chicanos would be in favor of breaking away from the US and forming their own nation. Also a decent percentage of blacks would too. The whites still need to be convinced, but I think they won't come out and say they're in favor of something like that because separatism is often seen as a racist white thing, so they try ultra hard to sound politically correct.

Personally I don't have a huge problem with this. My main hope is for the US to break apart into multiple different nations according to ideology. This way people can live in the society closer to their ideal. It won't be perfect, but it'll be 10 times better than the disaster we have now with all these different ideologies and cultures fighting for political control and creating even more hatred among the groups. 

Some of the better maps I've seen people create when trying to promote the idea looked somelike:


Mexican/Chicano area- Southwest, most of Southern and Central California, part of Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, some of Texas.


New Europe(White Nationalist)- North Western US, Wyoming, Oregan, etc.

Black Nationalists- The south, Georgia, Atlanta and the areas around here.

NorthEast- The utlra Left wing territory where they can have their progressive utopia.

The utlra Right wing states- most likely located somewhere in the south but north of the black nationalists. This is where the social conservatives can do what they want.

Libertarians- probably have a tiny territory somewhere in the middle around Colorado or somewhere like that.


Just some ideas Ive seen proposed...Won't happen till the US completely collapses though.

that's it

Gloom N Doom wrote:I remember seeing a poll months ago that said a large percentage of Mexican Americans/Chicanos would be in favor of breaking away from the US and forming their own nation. Also a decent percentage of blacks would too. The whites still need to be convinced, but I think they won't come out and say they're in favor of something like that because separatism is often seen as a racist white thing, so they try ultra hard to sound politically correct.

Personally I don't have a huge problem with this. My main hope is for the US to break apart into multiple different nations according to ideology. This way people can live in the society closer to their ideal. It won't be perfect, but it'll be 10 times better than the disaster we have now with all these different ideologies and cultures fighting for political control and creating even more hatred among the groups. 

Some of the better maps I've seen people create when trying to promote the idea looked somelike:


Mexican/Chicano area- Southwest, most of Southern and Central California, part of Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, some of Texas.


New Europe(White Nationalist)- North Western US, Wyoming, Oregan, etc.

Black Nationalists- The south, Georgia, Atlanta and the areas around here.

NorthEast- The utlra Left wing territory where they can have their progressive utopia.

The utlra Right wing states- most likely located somewhere in the south but north of the black nationalists. This is where the social conservatives can do what they want.

Libertarians- probably have a tiny territory somewhere in the middle around Colorado or somewhere like that.


Just some ideas Ive seen proposed...Won't happen till the US completely collapses though.

the blacks wont have that huge of a territory in this scenario. i mean there population isnt that big enough, even places that you think of as black areas, the white population is probably larger. and the white nationalist area wont work either, the northwest is a progressive left wing area, dont think theyd go for it. truthfully the only way id see any of this happening, is if the west becomes its own country, cali, oregon, washington, mostly from the Rockies west. idk if Arizona or nevada would want to be a part of it. Truthfully i think borders would form along political party lines. texas would never break up or give away territory, if anything it would be its own country.

Yea I don't think it would likely be set up in such a way, and in order for it to even get it started would require a lot of people to move and most people simply don't want to move..but I do think it is very much possible for the US to break apart into different or states. Ideally it should break apart along ideological lines. And certain racial and cultural groups tend to support certain political ideologies, at least for now.

see i don't think it would break down into "political lines" 
once the shit starts and bullets start flying, it'll be a long hard ass fight
and to cool things down a lot of twisted shit is gonna happen
and after all is said and done, the left over map will resemble more like who had the biggest wins?
who held the more power over where?

in other words, brown and black would be left with very little, while whitey would still keep the largest chunk.

if it was to break down into "political spheres" ., which one of you would want to live in the gay country?

Nationalism, pretty much what you guys are expressing here, isnt as great as you might think. A lot of horrible things have came from it.

I really don't like nationalism very much. I'd like the state to be abolished, completely and totally. But I realize everyone can't be convinced of it just yet. So instead of using the political system to impose my will on others, I'd rather at least focus on letting people break apart and live as they see fit.

What's so horrible about that? If decentralized power isn't good, what about centralized power? The opposite of what has been described is a One World Government. Yes, people have argued in favor of a one world state because they have this idea that it could end conflicts and bring everybody under one umbrella. I just think it's foolish, seeing that we do in fact have some many different people, with different cultures, ideology and needs. Why not let people try to govern themselves?

But more importantly, what's so great about the current US borders? Why is it so sacred to so many people? Why wouldn't the times change these borders? Why should all these people that oppose each other be forced under one banner? That too, can lead to problems and even bloodshed.

Not to mention, we already have a form of Nationalism right now. The American Flag cult with its belligerent militarism all over the world, threatening and attacking other countries, enforcing dollar hegemony on the world which causes all kinds of problems. It's time to break apart this dangerous force for evil in the world.

It ain't going to just happen because some people decide out of nowhere to split apart, I think it will more than likely happen(if it does happens at all) when the American Empire is exposed as being bankrupt and illegitimate. Once everybody sees the ship is sinking, I think everyone will want to "jump off."

Gloom N Doom wrote:I really don't like nationalism very much. I'd like the state to be abolished, completely and totally. But I realize everyone can't be convinced of it just yet. So instead of using the political system to impose my will on others, I'd rather at least focus on letting people break apart and live as they see fit.

What's so horrible about that? If decentralized power isn't good, what about centralized power? The opposite of what has been described is a One World Government. Yes, people have argued in favor of a one world state because they have this idea that it could end conflicts and bring everybody under one umbrella. I just think it's foolish, seeing that we do in fact have some many different people, with different cultures, ideology and needs. Why not let people try to govern themselves?

But more importantly, what's so great about the current US borders? Why is it so sacred to so many people? Why wouldn't the times change these borders? Why should all these people that oppose each other be forced under one banner? That too, can lead to problems and even bloodshed.

Not to mention, we already have a form of Nationalism right now. The American Flag cult with its belligerent militarism all over the world, threatening and attacking other countries, enforcing dollar hegemony on the world which causes all kinds of problems. It's time to break apart this dangerous force for evil in the world.

It ain't going to just happen because some people decide out of nowhere to split apart, I think it will more than likely happen(if it does happens at all) when the American Empire is exposed as being bankrupt and illegitimate. Once everybody sees the ship is sinking, I think everyone will want to "jump off."

ya we do have a form of nationalism, but you cant swing from one extreme to another. no centralized power to many centralized, concentrated powers. Nationalism is a bad thing because of what people do in the name of their "nation". in the creation of these "states" people will have ideas what they want the population to consist of. Easy example, like we discussed earlier about the blacks not having a big enough population in Georgia to have their own state, completely hypothetical, but if the scenario  that was proposed played out, what do you think would happen to all the people that dont fall in to the mold of what the nationalist consider to be citizens of their new race based nation? Real world example, the "first" genocide. The Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Turks. When the Young Turks revolted they set a standard of what a citezen of their new state should be, turkish and muslim. What do you think happened to the armenian population? wiped out. This was all a direct result of the nationalistic ideaologies of the turks, and mind you nationalism is still a very new idea, and genocide wasnt a thing yet. This real life scenario has played out over and over again from germany to darfur to isreal today, all in the name of nationalism.

there's a couple of problems with the young turk nationalistic example that you presented 

the big problem with it was that the armenians we're not turks, therefore they should of never been tried to be incorporated into the ottoman empire leftovers (turkey)

armenians should of been allowed their own sovereign status

you could argue the same for the kurds in iraq, syria, iran and turkey

they're not turks, they're not syriacs, they're not persians, they are their own

so the problem with a national fever trying to glue everyone together by force or else
is the fact that you can't
because peoples' are not the same

so you wouldn't have the problem of having to "incorporate them and assimilate them" 
IF they are left alone to be their own!

wolfman wrote:there's a couple of problems with the young turk nationalistic example that you presented 

the big problem with it was that the armenians we're not turks, therefore they should of never been tried to be incorporated into the ottoman empire leftovers (turkey)

armenians should of been allowed their own sovereign status

you could argue the same for the kurds in iraq, syria, iran and turkey

they're not turks, they're not syriacs, they're not persians, they are their own

so the problem with a national fever trying to glue everyone together by force or else
is the fact that you can't
because peoples' are not the same

so you wouldn't have the problem of having to "incorporate them and assimilate them" 
IF they are left alone to be their own!

that didnt make any sense. the armenians had their own kingdom, which was taken over by the ottoman empire, they assimilated pretty nicely into the empire, along wit other Christians and Muslims for hundreds of years. the nationalistic fervor of the turks led them to revolt and remove the Armenians from lands they already inhabited inside turkish/ottoman territory. 

Armenians do have their own sovereign state. nationalistic fervor doesn't try to glue anyone together, it does the opposite, it separates, usually by extreme force. Hence the Armenian genocide, the Palestinian struggle, the trail of tears, the Jewish genocide. 

nothing you just argued had anything to do with nationalism, which is what you were originally pushing, and honestly doesn't make any sense.

People in dago aint on that black vs Mexican non sence where they do this at besides L.A.?

I KNOWN BLOODS SINCE I WAS A KID IN ELEMENTARY STILL SEE MOST OF THEM CATS THEY KEEP IT REAL WITH OUR PEOPLE OUT IN SD! THEY WITH THE SHIT AINT AINT ON RACIAL SHIT NOBODY IN THE CITY BE ON THAT I WONT SAY WE ALL GET ALL GET ALONG BUT WE KNOW HOW TO CO EXIST WITH EACH OTHER  !ENOUGH SAID..