Re: OLDEST GANGS IN SAN DIEGO???

XVXX Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:23 pm

AFTER DOING SOME EXTENSIVE RESEARCH I HAVE CONFIRMED THAT MY HOOD OTNC IS THE OLDEST GANG IN SD COUNTY.

ALL THE UNCONFIRMED ACCOUNTS OF OTAY, SAN YSIDRO, AND POSOLE BEING FROM THE 20'S AND 30'S HAS YET TO BE PROVEN. WE CAN'T TAKE HE/SHE SAY OR MY GRANDMA SAID... STORIES.

PLUS, AREAS WERE HARDLY DEVELOPED AND MOST MEXICAN FAMILIES LIVED NEAR RAILROADS AND PLACE THEY CAN DO FARM WORK.

NC IS AN OLD CITY AND SO IS THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. IN THE EARLY MID 30'S THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO ANNOUCES A YOUTH DELIQUENCY PROBLEM. 1941 IS THE FIRST WRITTEN CONFIRMED FACT THAT MEXICAN GANGS EXISTED IN NC. THE TONE OF THE WRITTEN FACT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THEY EXISTED BEFORE 1941 BY PROBABLY 3-5 YEARS.

THEN IN 1950 SD RECOGNIZES A GANG PROBLEM AND THERE WAS ONLY 3 GANGS RECOGNIZED. WHICH MAKE SENSE IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SD AND HISTORY.

TIMELINE:
1929: CITY OF NC AND NC WELFARE OPEN CASA DE SALUD HEALTH CLINIC (LOCATED IN OTNC)

1937: CASA DE SALUD EXPANDS AND OPEN YOUTH FACILITY CATERING TO OVER 250 MEXICAN YOUTHS. ALSO, THEY WERE TEACHING CLASSES ON AMERICANIZING IN PRIOR YEARS.

1939: CITY OF SD ANNOUCE YOUTH DELIQUENCY (MOSTLY CATERING TO WHITE KIDS) PROBLEM AND HAVING ALTERNATIVE CLUBS LIKE BOYSCOUTS, YMCA, AND CASA DE SALUD FOR MEXICANS.

1941: NEW YOUTH DIRECTOR AT CASA DE SALUD RECOGNIZES GANGS FIGHTS AMONGST MEXICAN KIDS AND WHITES

1944: FIRST GANG FIGHT BETWEEN LOGAN (TOLTEC CLUB FROM 3100 ISLAND AVE) AND OTNC OVER NOT BEING ABLE TO ATTEND A DANCE.

1949: MAJOR GANG FIGHT BETWEEN LOGAN AND OTNC OVER HOUSE PARTY IN LOGAN. LEAVES ONE BOY FROM LH SERIOUSLY INJURED.

1950: SD RECOGNIZES 3 GANGS OTNC, LOGAN, AND OTSD. A SO CALLED 3 WAY WAR. LOGAN HAS HUGE FIGHTS WITH OTSD OVER A FRIEND BEING JUMPED IN OTSD.

wolfman Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:52 am

^ ^ orale, hey man, i spent some time gathering up info on the start of the OTNC barrio, and i got some notes and shit that i got to go and dig up, but basically i traced it back to the original block of housing., i'll get that for you later (otro dia)., yeah, but that's a trip on OTSD <~ that's that small varrio over there by mission hills, que no? I had heard of them being around back in the days, but man i never thought that they went back that far.. good spill tho'

XVXX Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:04 pm

wolfman wrote:^ ^ orale, hey man, i spent some time gathering up info on the start of the OTNC barrio, and i got some notes and shit that i got to go and dig up, but basically i traced it back to the original block of housing., i'll get that for you later (otro dia)., yeah, but that's a trip on OTSD <~ that's that small varrio over there by mission hills, que no? I had heard of them being around back in the days, but man i never thought that they went back that far.. good spill tho'

IT TRIP ME OUT I HAVE THE ARTICLES. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO UPLOAD PDFS??

OTSD WENT FROM MISSION HILLS ALL THE WAY TO THE OLD TOWN TROLLEY STOP AROUND MORENA BLVD NEXT TO THE 5. NOW I SEE WHY THEM AND LINDA VISTA DOESN'T GET ALONG.

BUT BOTH OLD TOWNS WERE MORE IN TOUCH WITH THERE SPANISH ROOTS WHILE LOGAN WAS IN TO THE AZTEC/MEXICAN HERITAGE. SO, I GUESS LOGAN WAS SANDWICHED BETWEEN THE TWO AND WOULD BEEF WITH BOTH. THE CRAZY THING IS THERE IS NO GANG DELIQUENCY ISSUE IN OTAY, OCEANSIDE, OR SAN YSIDRO UNTIL THE LATE 50'S AND EARLY 60'S.

MY ASSUMPTION IS EACH ACCOUNT SHOULD BE GIVEN AT LEAST A 3-5 YEAR GRACE PERIOD TO WHEN THEY ORIGINATED, BECAUSE THE MEDIA/NEWSPAPER WAS ON THE LATE TRAIN AND SDPD DIDN'T WANT TO CONFRONT THE GANG ISSUE.

BUT 1950 WAS THE YEAR WHEN THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THE GANGS AND HAD A 3 SERIES SPECIAL AND ONLY OTSD, OTNC, AND LH WAS RECOGNIZED. ESD WAS MENTIONED, BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE A WHITE GANG. IT STARTED AT THE H.S.

XVXX Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:23 pm

LOBO,

I HAVE BEEEN ASKING ABOUT THE ANCHOR BOYS AND THERE IS NOBODY I KNOW CAN CONFIRM THEM OR EVEN HEARD OF THEM. I HAVE ROOTS TO A FAMILY THAT HAS BEEN IN NC SINCE 1920 AND WORKED WITH GANGS IN THE 40'S-50'S AND NADA.

THERE'S OTNC (RESIDENT REUNION) IN OLD TOWN EVERY YEAR AND I WENT TO ONE A FEW YEARS BACK. THERE WAS ANOTHER CLICK CALLED THE MUTES/OTNC I GUESS THEY WERE AROUND WHEN CHERRY GANG WAS BANGING.

I FOUND THAT INFO ON GOOGLE. OTHER SD CLICKS DURING 50'S AND 60'S

YATOS- OTAY

NIDO BOYS- ???

vALLEY BOYS- LH 33RD

ROYAL GENTS-SHELLTOWN

LOS HERMANOS- SHELLTOWN

MUTES- OTNC

BLACK ANGELS- LOGAN

TumbleWeed Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:38 pm

How many Hispanic gangs are there in S.D. city?

American Zombie Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:45 pm

^ someone should make a detailed list of all SD hoods for those of us unfamiliar to SD. I've been to SD several times but still never knew who's hood I was in unless it was Logan heights. Someone break it down and explain more less what part of town each hood is from and which ones are within the city and which ones are in the county but not city. I always get confused on that. My introduction to SD gangs was all through Chicano rap.

wolfman Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:32 am

XVXX wrote:LOBO,

I HAVE BEEEN ASKING ABOUT THE ANCHOR BOYS AND THERE IS NOBODY I KNOW CAN CONFIRM THEM OR EVEN HEARD OF THEM. I HAVE ROOTS TO A FAMILY THAT HAS BEEN IN NC SINCE 1920 AND WORKED WITH GANGS IN THE 40'S-50'S AND NADA.

THERE'S OTNC (RESIDENT REUNION) IN OLD TOWN EVERY YEAR AND I WENT TO ONE A FEW YEARS BACK. THERE WAS ANOTHER CLICK CALLED THE MUTES/OTNC I GUESS THEY WERE AROUND WHEN CHERRY GANG WAS BANGING.

I FOUND THAT INFO ON GOOGLE. OTHER SD CLICKS DURING 50'S AND 60'S

YATOS- OTAY

NIDO BOYS- ???

vALLEY BOYS- LH 33RD

ROYAL GENTS-SHELLTOWN

LOS HERMANOS- SHELLTOWN

MUTES- OTNC

BLACK ANGELS- LOGAN

whats up BIG BANDIT, orale big dogg, pues tu sabes, that deal about the ANCHOR BOYS was told to me my this one crazy old party animal, the same vato who told me about the old Logan Heights clubs, and that LH has been confirmed by other posters., pero tu sabes, you know best, that's your varrio so i'll leave it alone., several other locos have told me the same thing you have, that there ain't never been no NC Anchor Boys, so i believe you., btw, that's some good ole research you been doing. I like it. Keep it coming dogg.

wolfman Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:40 am

TumbleWeedBity wrote:How many Hispanic gangs are there in S.D. city?

SD city or county?

Still around or defunct included?

SOUTH BAY SAN DIEGO BONAFIDE GANGS

SAN YSIDRO (SIDRO)
IRIS AVENUE
DEL SOL
OTAY 13
IMPERIAL 13
NESTOR
VARRIO CHULA VISTA
WEST SIDE LOCOS
DIABLOS 13
PALM CITY (LAS PALMAS)
OLD TOWN NATIONAL CITY
ACRES BOYS (Lincoln Acres)
NC BLOCK BOYS
NC SOUTH SIDE MOB

XVXX Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:54 pm

wolfman wrote:
XVXX wrote:LOBO,

I HAVE BEEEN ASKING ABOUT THE ANCHOR BOYS AND THERE IS NOBODY I KNOW CAN CONFIRM THEM OR EVEN HEARD OF THEM. I HAVE ROOTS TO A FAMILY THAT HAS BEEN IN NC SINCE 1920 AND WORKED WITH GANGS IN THE 40'S-50'S AND NADA.

THERE'S OTNC (RESIDENT REUNION) IN OLD TOWN EVERY YEAR AND I WENT TO ONE A FEW YEARS BACK. THERE WAS ANOTHER CLICK CALLED THE MUTES/OTNC I GUESS THEY WERE AROUND WHEN CHERRY GANG WAS BANGING.

I FOUND THAT INFO ON GOOGLE. OTHER SD CLICKS DURING 50'S AND 60'S

YATOS- OTAY

NIDO BOYS- ???

vALLEY BOYS- LH 33RD

ROYAL GENTS-SHELLTOWN

LOS HERMANOS- SHELLTOWN

MUTES- OTNC

BLACK ANGELS- LOGAN
whats up BIG BANDIT, orale big dogg, pues tu sabes, that deal about the ANCHOR BOYS was told to me my this one crazy old party animal, the same vato who told me about the old Logan Heights clubs, and that LH has been confirmed by other posters., pero tu sabes, you know best, that's your varrio so i'll leave it alone., several other locos have told me the same thing you have, that there ain't never been no NC Anchor Boys, so i believe you., btw, that's some good ole research you been doing. I like it. Keep it coming dogg.

Thanks homes. You been in SD longer then I've been alive plus I moved here as a kid in the 80's so you would know probably more than me. Don't discredit yourself, you been putting in a gang of work and your not always going to be a 100%.

I'm going to keep looking on anchor boys or anything. It's up for debate as far as when OTNC the gang was established. I have it in 1949 possibly 1944. NC gangs started at casa de salud which is in OTNC off Harding. So, I would consider any gang started there as OTNC especially a Mexican gang. Others could disagree, because it didn't have the name OTNC.

For example, FH is now consider Palm City aka LAS PALMAS gang. There a click of the old 1970's gang. Because they came up in the same area. Some will say its another under the banner of Las Palmas, because they started as taggers, but they evolved in the same hood??? It's hard to say.

The problem I have is tracing back OTAY and Sidro. According to what I have nothing until 1965. I didn't really try. But, in the gang special by the union tribune in 1950 they don't mention them just OTSD, LOGAN, and OTNC.

It seems as if Mexicans didn't even live over there or there was nothing over there no train. no work???

wolfman Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:06 pm

OTNC info left on the BK

anonimo wrote:To Lone wolf,
I was reading your chronology for National City and was surprised to see my old kilka left off the list. we were the National City homeboys, HBOYS, HBS, Nacional. We encompassed the area from OTNC in the West all the way to Rachel Street east south to 33rd and north to division. We had members from OTNC, ESNC, LANOITAN SHADOWS and Barrio NACIONAL from the area around kimnall park. We hung out at Las Palmas also known as " ele pe" and Kimball park as well as ROCA PARK in chula vista. We did not allow anyone else to join the clika as we were doing it all dirty and didn't want the kids to get in on it and so they had to start thier own clikas which is where the (Enanos)EBS, (Acre boys)ABS, (Block Boys)BBS,(Olden Boys) OBS, and even shell town Gamma GBS got thier names.At the time there were some people from the bolen park dukes, vickeystown and 18th street that moved in and tried to start thier barrios in Nacional. We held a meeting around 1977 at Las Palmas and outlawed all other barrios unless they had the letters Ene Ce in them. I remember fighting this guy named cobra that was trying to lay it down for 18th street and after he lost to me, one on one, they were done .Nobody else stepped forward from any of the other clikas and We united the barrio under one clika HBOYS and held it together till a HBOY killed someone and then we all started to go to jail and realized the mess we created. By 1982 under intense police pressure and due to our own self destructive tendencies, all HBoys were in jail, strung out on dope or had moved away. It was immediately after that highland ave was shut down and NCPD get up the pressure to keep the biggest and best cruise spot to ever hit san diego closed. I always felt bad aboout that part of our pendejadas but ni modo we were pendejos and fucked it all up for everyone else. But one thing I can attest to is that whomever got the wrong end of the stick with us had it coming and only got it after much patience on our part. We understood highland was an open spot for all to cruise but to disrespect the barrio the homes and the people there was a no-no and was not tolerated by our generation and so that was how highland was shut down.Putasos,filerasos y cuetazos como se dio recibieron.

anonimo wrote:Homeboy talking about INSANE ALLEY knows whats up. The first generation of INSANOS from IBS named themselves after the alley that ran north/south west of E Street. The alley used to be called INSANE ALLEY because of all the drama that OTNC would cause there. The first generation called themselves INSANE BOYS after INSANE ALLEY.

anonimo wrote:and other clicks in the nc were rasta boys 80's, cyclone boys 80's, locker boys early 80's, highland locos not sure the year, south side mob, 24st apts, Lil balas / bullet click 2000, prospect st, pistols older click, lil antigos 90's early 2000's, mid town klicka 2013, ws nc late 90's and early 2000's, lil enano boys aka L Ebs late 90's never allowed to grow, chicano brothers (club/click) late 70's early 80's. 13LocoS late 90's, otnc clicka -temecula click, still nesting, Nacional Ave (chula vista click that never popped off) 2000's, some these were not well known, the newer ones i know personally but most never got to see more than a few hit ups here and there and a bunch of hood politics came up so we wont speak on that part. i grew up in nc and my fam is deep in the set all the way to the roots of the barrio. i dont bang but i been in the mix of bullshit cuase my familia and just hearing the homies talk.

anonimo wrote:

THAT'S HOW I REMEMBER IT...I'M SANTO NATIONAL CITY ENANOS...BACK IN 1979 I WAS WRITING SANTO HBS ALL OVER...THEN THE HBS GRABED ME AND SAID I CAN'T WRITE HBS...THAT'SWHEN THEY NAMED US ENANOS BECAUSE WE WERE ONLY 12-13-14 YEAR OLDS...AND THE REST IS HISTORY...GOOD TO SEE MY CITY IS STILL ON TOP...SO LAST I WANT TO SAY TO ALL THE RAPERS FROM THE NASTY CITY..THE CITY OF RED DEVILS.. DON'T FORGET ABOUT US...SO PROPS TO THE GANGS OF THE EARLY 80'S ENANO BOYS THE HBS ..LOS GATOS...ARCE BOYS...BLOCK BOYS...ALLEY BOYS...CORNER BOYS...MIXED CREED...AND THE HOME GIRLS OF NC...ENANO GIRLS AND THE TINY LOCAS...

anonimo wrote:Lone Wolf is right about NC ANCHOR BOYS. They were around in NC BEFORE OTNC came up. They came up in the early 40's. OTNC Night Owls came up in the late 40's/ early 50's. The Night Owls claimed "OLD TOWN" NC, because their barrio remained in an undeveloped old part of National City (west of NC BLVD from 8th to 24th), while newer houses were being put up east of National City BLVD the late 40's and early 50's. That's why the street sighs past National City BLVD says E(ast) before the street name that far west into NC. Back then...that was the east side! OTNC Gatos (50's/60's) are said to be the generation after the Night Owls. I guess there are still homies from OTNC that have kept GTS going throughout the years via new recruits.

Anchor Boys were supposed to have died off in the 50's...after OTNC took off. Don't know if they were allied though...but my uncle told me that Anchor Boys and Otay used to beef in the 1940's.

When the media/NCPD reports that OTNC has been around since WWII...I think they mean gangs in NC have been around since WWII (NC Anchor Boys). I'm sure all of you are well aware of how much the media...and PD tend to screw up the real deal when it come to our hoods. I read a PD report by Sanders himself, whicj stated that the RED STEPS were a click of the LOGAN 30TH STREET gang! pfff

XVXX Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:11 pm

I READ THOSE A FEW WEEKS AGO. THOSE ARE SOME REAL GOOD FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS. THE ONLY ONE THAT IS QUESTIONABLE IS THE ONE ABOUT THE ANCHOR BOYS...

GROWING UP, I USE TO CALL THE ACRE BOYS THE ANCHOR BOYS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DID UNTIL THEY LEARNED THE GANG NAME CAME FROM LINCOLN ACRES. MOST INDIVIDUALS PERCEPTION OF TIME IS ALL MIXED UP BY DECADES. A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO PUT A LOT OF CHEESE ON THE ENCHILADA. WHAT I NEED TO FIGURE OUT IS TWO THINGS. IF THERE WERE A ANCHOR BOYS, WHERE DID THEY COME FROM AND WHERE DID THE NAME DEVELOP??? MAYBE A PICTURE OF SOME ANCHOR BOYS WILL HELP ASWELL. ALSO, SO FAR IN THE 1930'S-1940'S THE ONLY MONEY BEING MADE IN NC WAS THROUGH FARMING AND THE TRAIN DEPOT, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY COMMERCE COMING FROM BOATS OR DOCKS LIKE WILMAS/LB/SAN PEDRO. BECAUSE WE CAN ASSUME THAT'S WHERE THE NAME COMES FROM. I HAVEN'T RESEARCHED THAT SEGMENT YET...

BUT SO FAR I HAVE CASA DE SALUD AS THE ROOT OF ALL DELIQUENT PROBLEMS AND WHERE GANGS IN NC CAME FROM. CASA DE SALUD IS IN THE HEART OF OTNC. SO IF THERE IS A ANCHOR BOY GANG AND IT CAME FROM CASA DE SALUD THEN THAT CREDIT GOES TO OTNC. FOR SURE OTNC WAS AROUND IN 1944 MAYBE EVEN 1941. ( I HAVE PROOF). IT WAS TOO UNDEVELOPED IN THESE PERIODS FOR OTHER GANGS TO COME TOGETHER.

REMEMBER PEOPLE GET OUR INFO FROM SITES AND BLOGS (YOU AND I) AND THEY TAKE THEM AS HARDCORE FACTS. MOST POSTERS DON'T KNOW HOW TO CITE OR SAY WHO THERE SOURCE IS. I'VE SEEN IT FIRST HAND IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.LOL

FOR EXAMPLE, THE HOMIE FROM HOME BOYS AND ENANOS ARE TALKING ABOUT THERE FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE WHILE THE ONE WHO MENTIONS ANCHOR BOYS IS SAYING THINGS YOU ALREADY PUT OUT THERE YEARS AGO... HE DOESN'T SAY I'M FROM OTNC OR NC AND I'M 76 YEARS OLD AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. HE'S BASICALLY AGREEING WITH WHAT YOU WROTE. OTAY AND ANCHOR BOYS FIGHTING IN THE 40'S???

FIRST THE UNCLE TOLD HIM THAT. SECOND OTNC WAS ALREADY AROUND IN THE 40'S SO IF ANCHOR BOYS FAUGHT THEN THEY WOULD BE GOING AT IT WITH OTNC. THIRD, THERE NOT MENTION IN THE SD GANG 3 SERIES ARTICLE IN 1950 OTAY ISN'T EITHER. CONTINUE.....

XVXX Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:42 pm

OTAY AND SY MYTH....

OTAY AND SY AS GANG ARE NOT FROM 20'S, 30'S, OR EVEN 40'S. SY STARTED KICKING UP DUST IN THE 1950'S. STARTING IN 1953/54..

I CAN ONLY ASSUME SY VULTURES STARTED A FEW YEARS BEFORE THAT FROM 1951-1954. THERE WERE MILITARY STATIONED IN BROWN FIELD AND THEY WERE HARASSING MEXICANS AND EVEN VICTIMIZING MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS. LATER THE SY VULTURES DEVELOPED AS A DEFENSE GANG TO COUNTER THE MILITARY HARASSING THEM. ONE BIG GANG FIGHT OCCURED IN PALM CITY BETWEEN THE SY VULTURES AND A UNAMED PALM CITY GANG WHO'S MEMBERS WERE WHITE BOYS. SOME SY VULTURES LIVED IN OTAY ON ANITA STREET, BECAUSE IN THOSE TIMES IF YOU COMMITTED A CRIME THEY WOULD GIVE YOUR ADDRESS.

OTAY AS A GANG DIDN'T EVEN EXIST IN 1954. SY VULTURES CAME BEFORE THEM. EVEN AN SY VULTURE LIVED ON ANITA STREET WHICH IS IN THE HEART OF OTAY.

OTAY:

WHICH IS SOUTH OF CV. CV HAD WHITE BOYS AND EVEN WHITE GANGS. OTAY IS WHERE THE MEXICAN'S LIVED BECAUSE THE FIELD/CROP WORK. THERE WERE A SERIES OF CASES CALLED "THE WETBACK MURDERS" WHERE MIGRANT WORKERS WERE BEING ROBBED AND KILLED BY THERE OWN AND BY WHITES. IN 1952 THERE WERE THESE MURDERS BEING DONE BY OTAY RESIDENTS, BUT THEY DIDN'T LIST THEM AS A GANG. THERE WERE CRIMES BEING COMMITTED IN BACK IN 1947, BUT STILL NO GANG PRESENCE. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY WERE INTO ROBBING/211S. NOW IN 1958 THERE WAS A DANCE IN SY AND MAN BREAKING UP A FIGHT (SO-CALLED INNOCENT BYSTANDER) WAS A RESIDENT FROM OTAY WHO WAS STABBED.. MY ASSUMPTION IS THEY PROBABLY FORMED AFTER A SERIES OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITES AND GOING TO JAIL AND SEEING THE VULTURES AND OTHER GANGS POP UP THEY PROBABLY THEN FORMED THERE GANG. TO BE CONTINUED. I HAVE A GAP BETWEEN 1958-1969. BUTIN 1969 SOME WHITE BOYS FROM A GANG IN PACIFIC BEACH WENT TO A DANCE AT THE OTAY RECREATION CENTER AND GOT INTO A FIGHT WITH THE VLO'S AND THE VLO'S WERE THE FIRST TO BE SHOT AND KILLED IN GANG VIOLENCE. BIG CASE IN SD. INVOLVING GUNS AND GANGS

I'M GOING TO KEEP LOOKING INTO OTAY, BUT SO FAR THEY PROBABLY DON'T DATE UNTIL THE MID TO LATE 50'S. VULTURES ARE PROBABLY FROM 1951 OR 1952.

wolfman Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:44 am

orale, that's some good clecha you're throwing up., guess you been hitting that research pretty bad, que no?

that's good homie, keep it going

orale, so here's my two centavos to keep it going., yeah, i don't know about the acre boys being ever called anchor boys, lincoln acres is way far off from the docks and the west side., besides that, the acres boys are not that old., wasn't there an issue involving the nc alley boys with the acre boys because of the same initials? i don't know, i could be wrong, but acres boys can not factor into the 1940s equation because they were not around, and the like i said before, the only reason i posted anchor boys is because of my compa, a loganero, the same one who has given me a lot of solid info over the past, so that 411 i never read from anywhere, i got it from mi loco with gray hairs, almost all white canas now., but that doesn't mean that these anchor boys were old town national city members, they mighta been some short lived small club gang that never developed., i don't know., i'm just saying., but whatever dog, lets put that aside and keep going

in regards to SY & Otay as later gangs from the 50s or 60s, yeah, i'll buy that, but what i don't buy is all the history coming solely from newspaper articles, cause you and i and everybody knows that the news media only gets it right sometimes, and even them sometimes are a quarter correct., like for example, here's the fact that they never wrote about in the newspaper about SY and its pachucos., SY pachucos partied and had more activity in Tijuana than in the SD side, the reason being that all the night life was in Tj during those tiempos when the border was mostly unguarded., in fact, if you understand the landscape of Sidro, you'll find that it breaks down into several areas., the old school areas where these, the one on the south side of the freeway by calle primera and larson field which was part of the old little landers colony, the next part is the one between the 5 and the tracks, in what is formally uncontested present day VSYR., the last section is mostly all along the san ysidro blvd east of the 805, and that neighborhood is the oldest, and it once used to be considered the town of tia juana, and for all intents and purpose was almost synonymous with colonia libertad from tijuana mexico., there's very little left in terms of homes in this last section, but this is where the old old neighborhood was, and that's where pachucos had it going back in the 1940s, before there was a varrio san ysidro in the later 50s and early 60s.,

so what i'm trying to say here is that there were plenty of chucos around in the SY neighborhood doing things, same thing in other neighborhoods like otay and imperial, which i would consider the three oldest down here, but those chucos were not necessarily claiming varrio this or varrio that., it didn't work that way back then., so you have to scope it all out under a different microscope., you have to use different eyes, and maybe go to different sources., the last history about sidro pachucos that i just wrote about comes from talking to older people and confirmed by some reading at the tijuana central library at park teniente guerrero., that's is where you can find more history on san ysidro than even the san ysidro library.

i agree with you that most varrios as we know them today, like sidro, otay, etc. all came up in the late 50s early 60s, but that doesn't mean that those towns didn't have locos with a different onda going on in the 40s, 30s or even 20s IMO

BTW, i'm not trying to put up a fight on behalf of sidro 'cause that ain't the case., i'm not for anyone., in fact, i spent a night in jail because of a pleito with sidrenos back in the early 80s., i do have an old primo from the sidro villa locos whom i haven't seen in like ten years maybe., and i do have an old school homeboy from the original locotes, also from the early 80s, but i ain't seen him in like a decade as well, the only other two main sources i had for sidro is this one loco i met at work some years back, and this other on-line loco., the reason i'm saying all this is because i just want it to be clear that i ain't affiliating with anybody, i don't have that ype of personal agenda going., i'm just trying to get to the history of things

wolfman Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:16 pm

XVXX Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:13 pm

What I meant about Acre Boys is growing up a lot of us as kids before banging or people from other hoods would call the ACRE BOYS the Anchor Boys up until somebody corrrected them or After you learned they were named after Lincoln Acres. It was common for people to refer to the Acre Boys as the Anchor Boys.

My opinion on newspaper info is it's almost 80% reliable rather than getting my info from people with opinions. Most writers/reporters have to go through certain research in order to come up with a story. From citing sources to conducting 1 on 1 interviews with people. But, bottomline is they are not taking sides (UNBIAS???). I grew up thinking LH was the oldest and deepest varrio in all of SD. Not until the 2nd injunction came out did we figure out how old we are and how deep we were. LH had put in so much work and smashed all around that I think everyone believed they were old and deep.

The newspaper reporter has the same sources or better sources then any regular person on the streets. I'm going to give more regard to a College Professional News writer then a person from the hood with a short-term memory. Thats what i think.

I agree that these hoods probably had other crazy guys doing crime before the gang/hoods were established. Then your insight on pachucos would make sense too in SY about them partying in TJ. That's something I would like to look into.

I'm not saying you, but other people on forums seem to be defensive when the UT reported that OTNC was the oldest gang in SD county. Then they mad excuses why they were not. Without anything other than saying OH my NANA said this and my Tio said that. You and I both know that doesn't fly. Then some new reporters and there research, I mean.. We have to ask ourselves who is more credible a college professional or a person with a selective memory? I just don't have faith in people and their memories from the streets.

For example, There was a rumor going on in my hood that a younger homie had killed a Logan boy in Logan and he was doing life for killing a Logan boy. Kind of bragging.. So, then i did my homework and found out it was like the telephone game. One person tells another and the story becomes more distorted. At the end, It was a domestic dispute in Logan where the homie was accused for killing his mom's boyfriend who was 40 year old in LOGAN. The man might have been an older gee from Logan, but they made it sound like they were banging and smoked a Logan boy It was Domestic.

This is research that I do from the little storys I here and then use the news and even sometimes the court paperwork and I put 2 and 2 together.

Thanks for the feedback.

XVXX Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:20 pm

I like that flick. I'm saving it. LOL

I know you don't have a agenda. People might think I do since I'm from OTNC. Being the oldest or the hardest doesn't matter. I'm amazed with all the history and the things i've learned. It makes me appreciate my hood and the history of our people.

Weedie Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:40 am

Its funny all the ego trippin on what gang is the oldest. I think many have their own thoughts because they have a dog in the race ...nothing wrong with that. I can only throw my two centavos in. Who cares about the oldest. Its all about the baddest. Most vatos seem to get their history from people who have walked the walk. Newspapers and media always get the streets wrong. Only half truths made it to the media from johnny law (just like today). Things always get twisted in the news. But I get it...you can still get some history from papers about old varrios.

I'm trying to run across a old news article that has the first NEWS documented gang in San Diego (noticed i said NEWS). Cause there are many gangs that do exist (or have existed) but were never documented by the NEWS. Anyway this first gang was nameless but it kicked off in Downtown SD in the late 1800's. It wasn't a white gang. It wasn't a black gang, it wasn't a Mexicano gang. Hell it wasn't even a mixed race gang. The article said it was a FILIPINO gang. So it is most likely that the first NEWS documented gang was a Filipino gang. But I don't remember the article naming the gang. I dont think Otay is as old as the 30's. But there was supposed to be a gang called Los Yatos in the 40's. The first generation of Otay was called Yatos so Otay at least has its roots in the 40s sometime. There is a article where a vato from Otay tells a reporter that he wasn't even sure of his varrios history but that it started in the late 40's or 50's. That's from the horses mouth. That tells me that Otay is probably not from the 30's but it may be from the 40's.Nido boys..and a Sidro Vulture living on Anita Street in Otay. I have heard of Nita Boys or Nita Street Boys and old gang that was supposed to be from south side in the same timeline as Los Yatos. Maybe they were from Anita Street in Otay? Anyway there were probably more than one gang in Otay in those days. Didn't west side NC had 3 gangs in the 40's OTNC, Mutes and Niteowls?. There were white gangs in Palm City and Otay. I have heard that too. I also heard white black and brown were in the same youth gangs in Logan and Otay in the 50's. Probably some Ducky Boy type shit like in the Wanderers. Anyways there are probably older gangs then the ones around today but they probably went inactive and never were documented by the NEWS. So we will never know who really was the oldest.

wolfman Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:05 pm

man i barely got my computer back, its been a while., sup foos., que ondas weys Smile

)

ey weedie, that's true what you're saying, i agree with you with a lot of what you said, my bad on how sometimes im too fucced up and i misread what homies here are saying, dispensa people.

anyways, you said something there about "who cares" which varrio came first? right? well you know, for some of us that carry a certain attitude from our times and our place in the barrio family, it does carry some importance, not only in the endurance of times and eras, but also in the way people converse and communicate in each of those times and eras, so for me and Big Bandit, that's some of what goes with the establishing who's among the oldest if not the oldest. But i hear what you're saying 'cause being the baddest goes a longer way in today's attitude for sure., im stucc on the olden side in my thinking and analyzing of things, that's all., good talking to you.

SouthbayRaised Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:48 pm

Just a lil background on me I was raised in one of the largest gang families in the south bay. I had my Uncle, Aunts, multiple generations of cousins banging from 60s-2000s. I love all the history on the gangs on the southbay! I recently talked to an older homie who came over from Tijuana in the Mid 50s. He said he was a Pachuco from TJ. When he came over they started calling them Chucos. He said the older homies were called Cholos. He confirmed that there were homies already reppin Otay when he got here. This info only confirms there were Otayeros in the 50s. I also know a 90year old man with a Otay tattoo. So that hood is definitely among the oldest in SD.

wolfman Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:23 pm

firme background., orale

ey, not wanting to change the subject on you or nada but back to the old subject as to the oldest hood in san diego., i don't know, but i was reading up trying to follow the lineage of how it developed on the west side, like mission bay, otsd, claras and linda vista, and everywhere i kept running into Linda Vista Tecolotes as if they were a clique from the old LV13/LVR, but it turns out they're not, they were their own gang back in the day, and they were from down the road by mission bay on Tecolote Road and Morena Blvd. In fact, the place got hit big time with development, so much that Tecolote Road became Sea World Drive on the south side of the 5 freeway. Anyways, that was Tecolotes o.g. neighborhood, and now the Linda Vista 13 Rifa neighborhood is mostly up the winding road up the hill via Linda Vista Road, but the old Barrio Tecolotes was from the 1920's. The place can still be found on old maps as Tecolote Valley Creek.

wolfman Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:48 pm

[Quote]Shelltown S.D. Southeastern neighborhood. Joseph Poggi (1881-1968) said in an interview at San Diego High School, "In 1917 I built Shell Town. I had a business there, oil station, dance hall, and motel. Shell Town was along Main Street between 32nd street and the National City line" (Division Street). Supposedly named for the shells found on its sandy soil-it was real close to the bay at 32nd Street Naval Base Station[end Quote].

BlueandYellow Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:52 pm

Ceast wrote:
wolfman wrote:

NC?

Never seen vatos from OTNCor the east side throw this up. This is NESTOR 19th STREET.

BlueandYellow Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:57 pm

wolfman wrote:Hood or Gang?

the "barrio" was not known as OT early on., the barrio started getting attracting mexicans since the 1910s, and it was jamming by the 1940s, but it wasn't until the 1950s that the "gang" OTNC came out.

It was THE MUTES in the 1940's before OTNC came around. The Mutes were between Cleveland ST and NC Boulevard. After The Mutes came the OTNC NiteOwls in the 1950s.

BlueandYellow Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:08 pm

SouthbayRaised wrote:Just a lil background on me I was raised in one of the largest gang families in the south bay. I had my Uncle, Aunts, multiple generations of cousins banging from 60s-2000s. I love all the history on the gangs on the southbay! I recently talked to an older homie who came over from Tijuana in the Mid 50s. He said he was a Pachuco from TJ. When he came over they started calling them Chucos. He said the older homies were called Cholos. He confirmed that there were homies already reppin Otay when he got here. This info only confirms there were Otayeros in the 50s. I also know a 90year old man with a Otay tattoo. So that hood is definitely among the oldest in SD.

I seen a old veterano in Oceanside in pushing his 80's with Otay tattoo on his forearm. Maybe the same vato.

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